Written By Jayden Matthews and Melissa Fetty
Well there is a lot of talk about Ben not being Elite and this and that. Well this is a little bit of info that I think does put him right up there. Joe Montana is considered one of the Greats. Bens stats in his first seven years are eerily in comparison. Stats do not lie folks. I have always looked at Ben as one of the Great ones in the league right now. Top five easy, even with that joke of a list on NFL Network. Ben is a proven winner and this shows what I and alot of Steeler fans already know .
All Stats shown are compiled from both Quarterbacks first 7 years as a starter. Montana 1980-86 seasons. Roethlisberger 2004-2010 Seasons.
Montana 21.402 passing yards
Ben 22,502 passing yards
Montana 2855 passing attempts
Ben 2800 passing attempts
Montana 7.5 yards per attempt
Ben 8.0 yards per attempt
Montana 140 TD passes
Ben 141 TD passes
Montana 5.0 TD Percentage (percentage of passes that go for Touchdowns)
Ben 5.1%
Montana 1805 Completions
Ben 1766 Completions
Montana 63% Completion percentage
Ben 63% Completion percentage
Montana 66% win percentage
Ben 68% win percentage
Montana 2.7 Interception percentage
Ben 3.1 Interception percentage
Montana 11.8 Yards per Completion
Ben 12.7 Yards per Completion
Montana ‘s team averaged 4.1 Yards per rush
Ben's team averaged 4.1 yards per rush
Montana’s team averaged 31 rushing attempts per game
Ben's team averaged 31 rushing attempts per game
Montana’s team defense allowed 477 points in the two SB seasons in his first 6 years
Ben's team defense allowed 481 points in the two SB seasons in his first 6 years
Montana 13 4th Quarter comebacks in first 7 years as a starter
Ben 19 4th quarter comebacks in first 7 years as starter
Montana 12 game winning drives in first 7 years as starter
Ben 25 game winning drives in first 7 years as starter
Postseason Play through first 7 seasons
Montana 10 post season games
Ben 12 post season games
Montana 7-3 Record in Post season
Ben 10-2 Record in Post season
Montana 0-3 record on the road in Post season
Ben 3-0 record on the road in Post season
Montana 2562 Passing yards in Post season
Ben 2598 Passing yards in Post season
Montana 59.9% completion percentage in post season
Ben 61.9% completion percentage in post season
Montana 7.6 Yards per attempt in Post season
Ben 7.9 Yards per attempt in Post season
Montana 202 Completions in post season
Ben 201 completions in post season
Montana 17-14 TD to INT ratio in Post season
Ben 17-14 TD to INT ratio in Post season
Montan’s defense allowed 21.1 points per game
Ben's defense allowed 21.5 points per game
Montana’s team averaged 22.5 points per game in the post season
Ben's team averaged 27 points per game in the post season
Tuesday, August 9, 2011
Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu Who is Better?
Written by Jason Robinson
There has been a lot of debate lately about who's better: Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed. Both are great at their respective postions to be sure. But who is better? Is there a definitive answer? I know what I think. In fact, there's no contest.
Troy Polamalu is a tremendous talent, to be sure, but Ryan Clark does a bulk of the coverage in Pittsburgh. Polamalu is more like another linebacker in running situations, an extra blitzer in 3rd down pass situations, and a sure tackler in general. But Reed eclipses him in interceptions, in turnovers caused, and in touchdowns. By a large margin I might add. Reed changes the entire nature of the game and the way offenses approach playing the Ravens. Want proof? Reed is the guy who out-smarts and befuddles Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning! One of the smartest QBs ever has a difficult time with Reed-a point which he's admitted. The Ravens, who always hover around the top 5 in defense each year, are only 6-9 without him in the starting lineup. Plus, this is a guy who can take it to the house at any moment and can lay lumber when necessary as well. Just ask Kansas City. His leveling blow in the playoffs last year took any remaining life out of the Chiefs and sent the Ravens rolling into the next round.
Honestly, there is no contest. Reed leads in INTs with 54 (twice as many), in defensive touchdowns with 8 (twice as many), in forced fumbles and fumble recoveries. What more needs to be said? It's Ed Reed, hands down.
But then again...
Ed Reed is great at what he does, maybe the best ball hawk since the likes of Jack Christiansen and Jack Butler. Once the ball is in the air he's public enemy number one. But Troy Polamalu is more than the sum of his plays, er, parts.
What has made Polamalu so special is not any one play, but a confluence (no pun intended) of things. Pittsburgh's defense has allowed the fewest points in the NFL three times since Polamalu became a starter in 2004. In 2007, the Steelers finished second; in 2005, third. So in other words, since Polamalu's arrival seven seasons ago the Steelers have finished in the top three in points allowed five times. In fact, Polamalu's worth is proven even more so when you look at the Steelers record without him: the Steelers are only 6-7 when he doesn't start. He's got the hardware too: he's started three Super Bowls, is a six-time Pro Bowl selection, a three-time 1st team All-Pro and the reigning NFL Defensive Player of the Year. The guy could hang 'em up now and he's a Hall of Famer.
What resonates even stronger is what Pittsburgh hasn't done when he's been injured. The difference between having Polamalu in or out of the lineup is monumental, especially the last two seasons.
Steelers' defense with and without Polamalu since 2009:
Win-Loss: With: 17-5 ... Without: 6-7; Points per game allowed: With: 15.9 ... Without: 21.5; Interceptions: With: 28 ... Without: 6
But, as I said before, Polamalu is more than the sum of his parts. It's a series of splash plays that sets Polamalu apart. He has an uncanny ability to give the Steelers just what's needed just at the right time. Whether it's a strip sack, an INT, or a forced fumble Polamalu has been the Steelers Superman on many occasions. What more needs to be said? It's Troy Polamalu, hands down.
But then again..
Maybe there is no clear cut better player. Let's face it, they do play essentially two different positions. Polamalu is a Strong Safety and, by definition plays within 10-15 yards of the line of scrimmage most of the time. Watch game film of him and you'll see this to be the case. He plays within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage over 70% of the time. Ed Reed, on the other hand, is a Free Safety and plays, given the field position at the time, within 20-30 yards off the line. It's somewhat the difference between a Short Stop and a Center Fielder: one plays up and one plays deep. Their duties tend to differ therefore as well. Not to a great degree, but they do nonetheless. Yes, Reed has more INTs than Polamalu, but he's supposed to, it's his job. Troy has more tackles and sacks than Reed, but he should, he plays closer to the line. Look at it like this: two of the best Safeties in the last 25 years were Ronnie Lott and Rodney Harrison. Both were great players and both were complete players. But what sets them apart from one another is that Lott, who played Free Safety most of his career, retired with 63 INTs to Harrison's 34, while Harrison, a Strong Safety, recorded 30.5 sacks to Lott's 8.5. Get the point?
Look, I could spout numbers (too many), Pro Bowls (13), All-Pros (8), Super Bowls (3), and awards (2) and skew them however I want. If I were on Reed's side I could point out that he, if he continues at the pace he's on, will most likely break the NFL record for career INTs. If I were on Polamalu's side I could point out that he's played in over 20 fewer games, 36 fewer as a starter, and therefore his numbers aren't nearly as far behind Reed's as it would seem at first glance. Also, that he's a two-time Super Bowl winner whereas Reed hasn't even been to the Super Bowl. But none of those reasons are truly definitive as each can be broken down. i.e. When have any of Reed's INTs been in a truly "big" moment or in a playoff game? He hasn't even led them to a Super Bowl. Or, so what that Polamalu has two Super Bowl Rings? So does Bubby Brister. What did he do in those games? This argument could last for years...unless you happen to favor one color over another.
Honestly, I think the best description given regarding the two safeties was given by Kurt Warner when he said that 'before the ball is snapped and thrown, it's Polamalu. But once the ball is thrown, it's Reed'. Couldn't say it better myself. But I understand that you're reading this and expecting an answer. In that case then, in my opinion the best Safety in the NFL is...
There has been a lot of debate lately about who's better: Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed. Both are great at their respective postions to be sure. But who is better? Is there a definitive answer? I know what I think. In fact, there's no contest.
Troy Polamalu is a tremendous talent, to be sure, but Ryan Clark does a bulk of the coverage in Pittsburgh. Polamalu is more like another linebacker in running situations, an extra blitzer in 3rd down pass situations, and a sure tackler in general. But Reed eclipses him in interceptions, in turnovers caused, and in touchdowns. By a large margin I might add. Reed changes the entire nature of the game and the way offenses approach playing the Ravens. Want proof? Reed is the guy who out-smarts and befuddles Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning! One of the smartest QBs ever has a difficult time with Reed-a point which he's admitted. The Ravens, who always hover around the top 5 in defense each year, are only 6-9 without him in the starting lineup. Plus, this is a guy who can take it to the house at any moment and can lay lumber when necessary as well. Just ask Kansas City. His leveling blow in the playoffs last year took any remaining life out of the Chiefs and sent the Ravens rolling into the next round.
Honestly, there is no contest. Reed leads in INTs with 54 (twice as many), in defensive touchdowns with 8 (twice as many), in forced fumbles and fumble recoveries. What more needs to be said? It's Ed Reed, hands down.
But then again...
Ed Reed is great at what he does, maybe the best ball hawk since the likes of Jack Christiansen and Jack Butler. Once the ball is in the air he's public enemy number one. But Troy Polamalu is more than the sum of his plays, er, parts.
What has made Polamalu so special is not any one play, but a confluence (no pun intended) of things. Pittsburgh's defense has allowed the fewest points in the NFL three times since Polamalu became a starter in 2004. In 2007, the Steelers finished second; in 2005, third. So in other words, since Polamalu's arrival seven seasons ago the Steelers have finished in the top three in points allowed five times. In fact, Polamalu's worth is proven even more so when you look at the Steelers record without him: the Steelers are only 6-7 when he doesn't start. He's got the hardware too: he's started three Super Bowls, is a six-time Pro Bowl selection, a three-time 1st team All-Pro and the reigning NFL Defensive Player of the Year. The guy could hang 'em up now and he's a Hall of Famer.
What resonates even stronger is what Pittsburgh hasn't done when he's been injured. The difference between having Polamalu in or out of the lineup is monumental, especially the last two seasons.
Steelers' defense with and without Polamalu since 2009:
Win-Loss: With: 17-5 ... Without: 6-7; Points per game allowed: With: 15.9 ... Without: 21.5; Interceptions: With: 28 ... Without: 6
But, as I said before, Polamalu is more than the sum of his parts. It's a series of splash plays that sets Polamalu apart. He has an uncanny ability to give the Steelers just what's needed just at the right time. Whether it's a strip sack, an INT, or a forced fumble Polamalu has been the Steelers Superman on many occasions. What more needs to be said? It's Troy Polamalu, hands down.
But then again..
Maybe there is no clear cut better player. Let's face it, they do play essentially two different positions. Polamalu is a Strong Safety and, by definition plays within 10-15 yards of the line of scrimmage most of the time. Watch game film of him and you'll see this to be the case. He plays within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage over 70% of the time. Ed Reed, on the other hand, is a Free Safety and plays, given the field position at the time, within 20-30 yards off the line. It's somewhat the difference between a Short Stop and a Center Fielder: one plays up and one plays deep. Their duties tend to differ therefore as well. Not to a great degree, but they do nonetheless. Yes, Reed has more INTs than Polamalu, but he's supposed to, it's his job. Troy has more tackles and sacks than Reed, but he should, he plays closer to the line. Look at it like this: two of the best Safeties in the last 25 years were Ronnie Lott and Rodney Harrison. Both were great players and both were complete players. But what sets them apart from one another is that Lott, who played Free Safety most of his career, retired with 63 INTs to Harrison's 34, while Harrison, a Strong Safety, recorded 30.5 sacks to Lott's 8.5. Get the point?
Look, I could spout numbers (too many), Pro Bowls (13), All-Pros (8), Super Bowls (3), and awards (2) and skew them however I want. If I were on Reed's side I could point out that he, if he continues at the pace he's on, will most likely break the NFL record for career INTs. If I were on Polamalu's side I could point out that he's played in over 20 fewer games, 36 fewer as a starter, and therefore his numbers aren't nearly as far behind Reed's as it would seem at first glance. Also, that he's a two-time Super Bowl winner whereas Reed hasn't even been to the Super Bowl. But none of those reasons are truly definitive as each can be broken down. i.e. When have any of Reed's INTs been in a truly "big" moment or in a playoff game? He hasn't even led them to a Super Bowl. Or, so what that Polamalu has two Super Bowl Rings? So does Bubby Brister. What did he do in those games? This argument could last for years...unless you happen to favor one color over another.
Honestly, I think the best description given regarding the two safeties was given by Kurt Warner when he said that 'before the ball is snapped and thrown, it's Polamalu. But once the ball is thrown, it's Reed'. Couldn't say it better myself. But I understand that you're reading this and expecting an answer. In that case then, in my opinion the best Safety in the NFL is...
THE INFERIOR BEN ROETHLISBERGER
Friends, Yinzers, Steelers fans, lend me your ears; I come to bury Roethlisberger, not to praise him. The noble men at ESPN have told you that Roethlisberger is inferior, that Eli Manning is better than he. If it were so, then it is his own fault and he must simply bear that fault. Here, then, I come to speak at what must obviously be his funeral, for at ESPN they are all, all of them, honorable men.
Roethlisberger was, I thought a great quarterback, but ESPN says he is inferior, and they at ESPN are honorable men. He, Roethlisberger, has brought multiple Super Bowls to Pittsburgh, including two Rings. In this did Roethlisberger seem inferior? When the Cardinals gained the lead in Super Bowl XLIII, Roethlisberger led the greatest game-winning drive in Super Bowl history. Inferiority should be made of weaker stuff! Yet ESPN says he is inferior, and ESPN is full of honorable men.
You all did see that Eli Manning was rated ahead of Roethlisberger on ESPN's version of the QB Rating. I speak not to disprove what ESPN said, but simply to speak what I do know. You all do love him and not without cause. I do as well... Bear with me, please, my heart is in the coffin that ESPN must surely have prepared for Roethlisberger and I must pause until it comes back to me.
If I were disposed to stir your hearts and minds to anger, I should do ESPN wrong. I rather choose to wrong the inferior, to wrong you or myself than wrong such honorable men. But I found, through research, his stats. Will you be patient and stay awhile? For I feel I have overstayed my welcome and am wronging these honorable men whose daggers have stabbed Roethlisberger. If, then, I have your ears, let me recount to you the comparisons between the two men in question.
In regular season wins Roethlisberger leads Eli Manning 69-29 to 60-43, and in playoff wins 10-3 to 4-3. And in the ultimate game, this may be the most unkindest cut of all, Roethlisberger leads Manning two to one in wins and three to one in appearances. Inferiority? But what of the mundane numbers that eventually define a great leader? Is he inferior in third down percentage, completion percentage and yards per completion? I am no researcher, as ESPN is, but a plain, blunt man who loves his quarterback. But I simply need let his numbers speak for him in this comedy of errors that they at ESPN have devised. For in each of the aforementioned categories Roethlisberger leads (41% to 34% in 2010, 63.1% to 58% and 12.7 yds to 11.7 yds for their career), as he does in 2nd half completion percentage (63.7% to 57.2%) and in TD-INT percentage (3.1% to 3.4%)
.
Surely in the most important areas, though, he must be inferior. In the times when he is needed the most he must fold and show himself the lesser to Manning. Surely! In the stretch runs and in the playoffs and in the fourth quarters and the game-winning drives, he must be inferior. Alas, he isn't. In the stretch runs of the season Roethlisberger wins 75% of his games (24-8) to Mannings' 47% (16-18), with it increasing to 76.9% to Mannings' 57% in the playoffs. When the game is on the line his mettle is proven just as soundly. His 19 fourth quarter comebacks and 25 game-winning drives are greater than those of Manning (14 and 17) and are among the highest in NFL history through the seven years he's been in the league. Yet, this is the quarterback that ESPN has deemed inferior and would choose to bury behind lesser ones! "Here was a Caesar! When comes such another?!?"
(In case you don't recognize what was done here, I used the Marc Antony speech from "Julius Caesar", act 3, scene 2 to make my points, and quite heavily actually. Read, chil'ren!)
Roethlisberger was, I thought a great quarterback, but ESPN says he is inferior, and they at ESPN are honorable men. He, Roethlisberger, has brought multiple Super Bowls to Pittsburgh, including two Rings. In this did Roethlisberger seem inferior? When the Cardinals gained the lead in Super Bowl XLIII, Roethlisberger led the greatest game-winning drive in Super Bowl history. Inferiority should be made of weaker stuff! Yet ESPN says he is inferior, and ESPN is full of honorable men.
You all did see that Eli Manning was rated ahead of Roethlisberger on ESPN's version of the QB Rating. I speak not to disprove what ESPN said, but simply to speak what I do know. You all do love him and not without cause. I do as well... Bear with me, please, my heart is in the coffin that ESPN must surely have prepared for Roethlisberger and I must pause until it comes back to me.
If I were disposed to stir your hearts and minds to anger, I should do ESPN wrong. I rather choose to wrong the inferior, to wrong you or myself than wrong such honorable men. But I found, through research, his stats. Will you be patient and stay awhile? For I feel I have overstayed my welcome and am wronging these honorable men whose daggers have stabbed Roethlisberger. If, then, I have your ears, let me recount to you the comparisons between the two men in question.
In regular season wins Roethlisberger leads Eli Manning 69-29 to 60-43, and in playoff wins 10-3 to 4-3. And in the ultimate game, this may be the most unkindest cut of all, Roethlisberger leads Manning two to one in wins and three to one in appearances. Inferiority? But what of the mundane numbers that eventually define a great leader? Is he inferior in third down percentage, completion percentage and yards per completion? I am no researcher, as ESPN is, but a plain, blunt man who loves his quarterback. But I simply need let his numbers speak for him in this comedy of errors that they at ESPN have devised. For in each of the aforementioned categories Roethlisberger leads (41% to 34% in 2010, 63.1% to 58% and 12.7 yds to 11.7 yds for their career), as he does in 2nd half completion percentage (63.7% to 57.2%) and in TD-INT percentage (3.1% to 3.4%)
.
Surely in the most important areas, though, he must be inferior. In the times when he is needed the most he must fold and show himself the lesser to Manning. Surely! In the stretch runs and in the playoffs and in the fourth quarters and the game-winning drives, he must be inferior. Alas, he isn't. In the stretch runs of the season Roethlisberger wins 75% of his games (24-8) to Mannings' 47% (16-18), with it increasing to 76.9% to Mannings' 57% in the playoffs. When the game is on the line his mettle is proven just as soundly. His 19 fourth quarter comebacks and 25 game-winning drives are greater than those of Manning (14 and 17) and are among the highest in NFL history through the seven years he's been in the league. Yet, this is the quarterback that ESPN has deemed inferior and would choose to bury behind lesser ones! "Here was a Caesar! When comes such another?!?"
(In case you don't recognize what was done here, I used the Marc Antony speech from "Julius Caesar", act 3, scene 2 to make my points, and quite heavily actually. Read, chil'ren!)
Subscribe to:
Comments (Atom)